Igniting Change: Dr. Roopan Gill on Revolutionizing Women's Health & Rights

Ever been set ablaze by the fierce glow of innovation and social justice? My encounter with Dr. Roopan Gill did just that, leaving me inspired to share our enlightening conversation with you. We traversed Dr. Gill's evolution from an OBGYN to a CEO passionate about pioneering digital healthcare solutions, while diving into the impact of Vitala Global and the groundbreaking app Aya Contigo." Together, we tackle the reverberations of Roe v. Wade's overturn and the implications for women's sexual and reproductive autonomy, all while celebrating the fiery activism that is reshaping the landscape of rights and healthcare.

A wave of green activism has swept from Latin America right to our doorstep, and in the face of efforts to roll back progress, it's more crucial than ever to champion the voices leading the charge. Dr. Gill and I peel back the layers of historic oppression and examine how today's youth are rewriting the script with their relentless pursuit of equality and knowledge. As we reflect on the powerful intersection of spirituality and activism, we take you through our shared vision of the resilience required to kindle societal change, especially within the complex tapestry of abortion rights work.

Closing our session, we venture into the realm of spiritual practice and its role in empowering women. With a nod to Aya Contigo's mission to provide healthcare support, we highlight the inarguable necessity for women to command their health choices. As we bid farewell, I leave you with stories of compassion and the potency of community, hoping to ignite a spark in your own journey towards personal empowerment and societal transformation. Join us for a narrative that not only illuminates the issues at hand but also fuels a sense of hope and determination for a more equitable future.

www.vitalaglobal.org

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Chapters

• 1:00 Empowering Women Through Abortion Rights
• 10:18 Women's Rights and Reproductive Health
• 23:11 Gender Inequality and Women's Healthcare
• 30:34 Empowering Women Through Spiritual Practice
• 35:09 Subscribe to Citizen Journalist and Memory

Transcript

Shaman Isis: 1:01

Hey you guys and welcome to Citizen Journalist. I'm your host, shaman Isis, and I have a really fascinating guest today and we're going to be talking about a super important topic. Dr Rupan Gill, thank you so much for joining us for our episode today. I'm jacked to talk to you about Vitala Global and Aya Contigo. Am I pronouncing it correct?

Dr. Roopan Gill : 1:21

Yes, Totally yes.

Shaman Isis: 1:22

Yeah, and the mission of the work that you do. Just for the listeners to know, I had the chance to hear Vitala Global speak at an event in New York City recently and it was so empowering. The women in the room were just on fire with just excitement about having a real honest conversation about taking things important topics from soundbites to solutions. So it was really incredible.

Dr. Roopan Gill : 1:49

So thank you for joining us, thank you so much for having us and having me here to represent the work and also to share a lot. Share a bit about our experience, so thank you. I'm super excited, too, for this conversation.

Shaman Isis: 1:56

Yeah, yeah, yeah, just so. Can you please share with our listeners what it is that you do?

Dr. Roopan Gill : 2:03

Yeah, definitely. So I am an OBGYN, so I do spend. You know, I'm an OBGYN. I'm a CEO as well of Vitala, co-founder with Dr Genevieve Tam, who is who you met in New York City, and we basically what we've been on this mission to do at Vitala is really center the user and the community, so that woman herself that is seeking abortion care. So we're specifically talking about abortion and we've really been intentional about that to address one of the most stigmatized issues in sexual and reproductive health, and work in some of the most challenging contexts in the world. And basically what we do is co-create digital solutions with women and girls and their communities to support them in specifically, self-managing their own abortions, personalized contraception, decision making, and we're also doing some work in the miscarriage space and making sure that they have the tools and the information to do the thing that they need to do for their health care in a way that makes them feel empowered and not stigmatized while they're going through that process.

Shaman Isis: 3:11

Thank you for sharing that. I was really excited. I wanted you to be able to introduce our topic.

Shaman Isis: 3:17

I thought you'd do it more elegantly than me, I can be a bit of a jackhammer sometimes.

Shaman Isis: 3:22

This is such an important topic. I think we all know that after Roe v Wade got a return to America, you know it unleashed a bit of chaos, but you know, I always think chaos drives the most important things that need to change to the surface, and that's kind of what we're going through with the post closures. The world's really kind of having a reckoning all over about. You know people wanting things certain ways and others wanting it another, and you know we need those sort of pain moments for us to be able to finally level up, if you will. And so you guys are really leading the charge and having this conversation so openly and giving it grace and sincerity and clarity and honesty, which I think it's lacking, because that and we talked about this before we started filming that conversation is so fence post about your perspective, on your personal opinion about it that so often, almost none of the coverage ever talks about the personal journey, totally yeah. So how did you get? Can I ask how you? How did you get here?

Dr. Roopan Gill : 4:29

to this place where you're leading.

Shaman Isis: 4:31

You're leading the way for women to be honored in their their personal choices through their journey.

Dr. Roopan Gill : 4:38

I love that question. So we, like I mentioned, I'm an OBGYN but I did extra training to become an abortion provider myself. I still provide medical care and it's something that I'm very passionate about and I think it's so important because I see patients day in and day out. I see women themselves and then it helps me to think about ways that we can improve the technology and I both of us, you know, we did our residency together. We're old friends.

Dr. Roopan Gill : 5:06

That's where we met, like about 12 years ago, and we're sort of black sheep's in our program because we knew early in those days like we want to do something in global health. It kind of was like more about like working in low middle income countries, really supporting women and girls and people in these settings, and we like kind of went our ways and we're kind of figuring out like what, what is, how does that look? Because I, you know, to be honest, it's very challenging in our day and age with OBGYNs. Like there's not many like us, like Jen and I, who have that are OBGYNs and then running our own tech, not-for-profit, and have done all these other things. Most often it's like an OBGYN who's working full-time clinically and then adds a little bit of this work to their. You know day-to-day work. But Jen and I have been super intentional about that and I worked for the World Health Organization. I was with MSF on mission with them. I worked in Yemen and Nigeria and it was like kind of through these experiences of even Jen she also worked for MSF it was through these experiences of seeing things at like the local, grassroots level while also working at sort of these higher level you know policy with WHO and getting a little bit frustrated with the dialogue around localization and centering the user and centering women themselves into the solutions we're building with them, or well, it's like for them. But really I was getting very frustrated and saying, well, actually, like if we want to do this authentically, intentionally, in an empowering way, like we need to talk to the women, we need to talk to the communities, we need to co-create with them, and so with our personal experiences, we, yeah, just got on to this mission. To be honest, did I think that we would get to this point? We're four years old now, we had our anniversary yesterday, congratulations and doing the things we're doing and the impact we're making. But in the early days, when we started getting an initial seed grant to do the work in Venezuela. So I think it's important to highlight that too.

Dr. Roopan Gill : 7:12

That's unique about us is that we started our work in a country that has a complex humanitarian crisis, that has already a legal context where it's basically illegal and only to save a woman's life, and we wanted to show.

Dr. Roopan Gill : 7:31

We were like, you know, with our experience, I had the hypothesis I'm like we can do this, we can show that this tech, a digital solution, could support people in a system where the system is failing women and for them to be able to do it safely. And so, in showing that, and then, when the Dobbs decision happened, it was like, okay, the time is now we can bring this solution and adapt it to the US context. Did we think we were going to be doing that? No, but we had the foresight early on that when we were creating our mission statement, our vision statement, that we want to create solutions for people that are living in the most challenging context globally, regardless, you know. And so, yeah, that's how we got here. I mean it's. There's a lot of other little nuances to our journey and our story, but it really has been driven by this deep fire and passion to do this work, since we were trainees even before that, even before we met.

Shaman Isis: 8:24

So yeah, it's. It's interesting because there's this real moment going on, particularly here in america, but I think it's global. Not only do we have a massive reduction in population, uh, in terms of new births going on in most countries, I think it's almost all of them, um, but people aren't getting married either.

Shaman Isis: 8:44

I mean, there's like kind of a battle lines have been drawn between men and women and I think on a subtle level in america that's being fueled by women getting to their, to their like, their capacity for being told what to do, and the horror stories that are coming out about what's happening in some of the states that have lost their. Excuse me, you guys, if you've been watching my show for a while, you know I cuss like a sailor. They're fucking minds. Uh, they have, they've lost their mind. Some of these things like there's and I just have to bring this up because this fascinates me about america so there's, there's, I think it's arizona where they're trying to to pass the most antiquated bill.

Shaman Isis: 9:20

Yeah, um, that originates from like 1864 I want, want to say, yes, the old, but the most interesting thing about this bill that they want to pass, aside from the obvious, which is that it's antiquated and basically doesn't allow women freedom over their own bodies is the fact that it was originally ushered through by a man who married three children, folks, and so that's what they're revitalizing a law ushered by a pedophile. Anyway, yeah, so those kinds of things are kind of going on all over America, but for the first time in my lifetime and I'm in my 50s these conversations are happening where people are calling it out in ways I've just never seen before. In ways I've just never seen before what are your thoughts on, kind of where we're at in terms of history, and you know, there's so much, we could go so many different ways of that conversation.

Shaman Isis: 10:12

But just off the top of your head, like, what do you think about all the things that are going on?

Dr. Roopan Gill : 10:16

Yeah, you know it's so interesting. When we started the work with Vitella, we were going through a phase where there was because there was a lot of changes globally. We were seeing actually a lot of positive movement, the whole green wave I'm not sure if you've heard about this like with the green wave movement that basically has come from Latin America, from Argentina and then Colombia, we saw this wave of feminism and activism and changes in the laws and decriminalization. I feel like this was a period of time in the first couple of years of VITALA, but then, since this DOPS, the DOPS decision has happened and what we keep on seeing and I just actually today saw a map that New York Times showed of what's happening as state by state is dropping in terms of their ban, as state by state is dropping in terms of their ban, like they're like dropping, like flies, in terms of more restrictive laws around reproductive rights and abortion rights And-.

Dr. Roopan Gill : 11:13

We try to maintain our hope. We have to be hopeful in this time, but it is also very scary, I have to say. I think the fact that something like this can happen in Arizona in this day and age is a bit scary. That six-week ban has now been instated since yesterday. Texas has been going through its situation as it has been going since even before the Dobbs decision, and I think that's also important to highlight too, is that the Dobbs decision is one thing, but I feel like the attack on women's rights in the United States, especially around Black and brown bodies, and that attack on us has been something that was predating the Dobbs decision.

Dr. Roopan Gill : 12:01

It's like there is this deep I mean it's history. There's a deep historical, structural sort of violence and trauma that is experienced by the collective, and I feel like the fact that we have that it's not memories that just have passed. There is definitely stuff that needs to be resolved. The other side of it, though, so there's sadness, but I think what I'm feeling hopeful about is the youth. To be honest, like that part for me, like witnessing what we're seeing now across the US with all the campuses, you know, not around abortion, but what we're seeing with Gaza, but in the same vein, it is the. These activists are like our future, and they're kind of taking the reins, and I see that actually not just in the US. I'm seeing this also in Latin America. I've seen it in the work I do at sub-Saharan Africa. That's hopeful and I feel like, yeah, that's kind of where I'd leave that.

Shaman Isis: 13:05

You know it's interesting. I talk because I'm a spiritual teacher, an author. I talk a lot about what people would call woo, woo. But a couple of years ago I've really felt a shift in the collective. But a couple of years ago I really felt a shift in last breath of the patriarchy is clawing back any and everything it can to try to control, because they know they're losing control of women. Women are choosing to opt out of dating, of having children, of having families, of even you know, it's just the whole thing, because they've reached this point of of disgust and and, and I think that's its own like pendulum effect of what happens. So I have a lot of hope that that we're entering this phase where, you know, we're just seeing that like it's that last gasp, dying breath, and sadly people have to get hurt. Yes, these kinds of moments to happen, but the when I look at the younger generations, I don't see them tolerate. They're not tolerating a lot no, they're not and they're hungry for it too.

Dr. Roopan Gill : 14:30

they're hungry for, like the, the knowledge and figuring out ways that they can be active. Yeah, and that's I like that.

Shaman Isis: 14:39

Yeah, one of the most interesting things about all this I had a I do a live on X with Billy Dees and we were talking about the college campuses and people are like well, I don't understand what's wrong with them and it's like how disconnected are the people in power. They're the American dream and this is just particularly for Americaica, but I think it's actually going on everywhere.

Shaman Isis: 14:59

You're seeing it with the farmer protests in france and in germany and people the average person is standing up and going enough and it's like the politics are a hot mess. I mean, our politicians are all bought off by big corporations, exactly. It's so blatant in america now that and I know it's like that in canada that it's almost frightening that we've actually gotten to this obvious of a place. The American ladder, I mean the American dream, the ladder to that has gone. Housing is up 50%, food is up 30 to 50%, and this is since the pandemic, because these corporations are taking advantage of this moment when the politicians are so obviously easy to buy off and they can do whatever they want, and it's pushed our youth to this point. I don't believe this is necessarily I don't give me one. I think it definitely is ingrained in what they believe is politically OK Not all of them, but for many of them. But I don't think it would have gotten to this place if they weren't scared for their future.

Dr. Roopan Gill : 15:55

Exactly, I agree with that, 100 percent aren't scared for their future. Exactly, I agree with that, 100%. Yeah, I'm also. I was going to highlight something that you said about the woo side, because I too, I have one other hat that I wear which I try to incorporate in the culture of Itala and that and I also in our product, because I am also a breathwork facilitator. I do Kundalini yoga a lot.

Dr. Roopan Gill : 16:17

I really believe in these kinds of things and the shift in the consciousness globally and that's why it probably keeps me resilient and hopeful and we haven't given up, even though we're going through a challenging moment at Vytala. At this moment too, because it is a challenging space to be working in when you're doing abortion work and everything is always you feel like it's resistance, it's like you're coming, you're facing resistance all the time and I kind of feel like because of all the other work I do and the practices I have, and also just like my other identities that have also had to face a lot of resistance, just as being a South Asian, you know, woman of color and challenges with your family, like these all things are intersected. But I really appreciate that you mentioned that, because I really believe that we have to think beyond just ourselves, because there is so much more out there in play.

Shaman Isis: 17:20

Yeah, we really have such an incredible impact on each other. So, for our listeners because I think for a lot of people they hesitate to have this conversation, they're scared to have this conversation. They don't want to get political conversation. They're scared to have this conversation, they don't want to get political what would be some advice for people in how they can, you know, get more comfortable with this conversation and do perhaps try to support better towards the women's health?

Dr. Roopan Gill : 17:53

Yeah, I think it is difficult. I think because it can get heightened and political, it can get religious. I mean there's can get heightened and political, it can get religious. I mean there's so many pieces to this conversation that can be challenging. But I will say from my experience that what we think versus like when you actually have that interaction with somebody, sometimes you can find that there's a common ground, right Like if I was sitting with you and you and I were not on the same page, just starting from a vantage point of getting a sense of where people's values stand. And I say this because something that's very core to how we do our work is that we do actually run these values clarification and attitude transformation workshops, and that's how we get the conversation going.

Dr. Roopan Gill : 18:35

When we're going into communities whether it's in the U? S or in Latin America, where it's very challenging People have fear, people have their values, people are like don't even want to talk about abortion, so we don't go in there being like rah, rah, rah, abortion, abortion, abortion. You kind of need to reach your audience. So what we've been doing is running these workshops where we really it is a very like a human experience, because everybody brings to table their own values and attitudes based on how they were brought up, their religious beliefs. And these workshops are amazing because you run them for a day you do usually do them for a day and where people stand before you start them and then where they stand afterwards, there's always a shift for the vast vast majority.

Dr. Roopan Gill : 19:21

So we that I know you're asking like just for a basic list, like you know a person who's like wanting to have a conversation with someone else around it, I would say to really try to, yeah, find level set up a little bit right. I think it's easier to come to a conversation where you can understand where someone else's values stand first and then kind of talk about the abortion conversation. I also think it's important to center it around healthcare. So often I think it gets so politicized.

Shaman Isis: 19:54

And that's all on purpose, because it's the fence post they can hang on. Exactly yeah distract them with their socioeconomic, religious training, and then they won't actually pay attention to the fact that it's her fucking choice.

Dr. Roopan Gill : 20:20

Yes, it's her choice and also it's her health care.

Dr. Roopan Gill : 20:24

Exactly Like I take care of people who, because I'm still a provider there's people we take care of through Ayacontigo, but I'm an abortion provider here. I provide surgical abortion care in Toronto up to, you know, 25 weeks. I have patients that are, it's like, fetal anomalies, miscarriages, it's you know, basically it doesn't matter why a person needs the abortion, but it is healthcare. It's like just like if I were to deliver a baby as well, right? Or it's just like if I was going to do laparoscopic surgery for someone for a cyst. Like this is where we need to get to in these conversations is that providing abortion care is health care. So, yeah, it's difficult, though I will say I mean it's. It takes a lot of patience, it takes a lot of grit.

Shaman Isis: 21:12

Yeah, you know the training, the one thing that I became.

Shaman Isis: 21:14

I had a spiritual awakening a few years back and and I had always been spiritual and a seeker, but it was this one of those powerhouse moments of like time to get your shit together and in the, the, the blindfold really got ripped off to the systems and the power dynamics that are actually running most everything, and it was this almost terrifying in a way, because I had bought into so much and we all do this.

Shaman Isis: 21:43

This is how we end up in unhealthy thought habits that create an unhealthy life experience, because we only know what we know and that's so hard for us to understand because we think of ourselves as being these independent thinkers. We're just like, yeah, but you got that thinking from somewhere. Yes, yeah, and, and, and and. When I try to have conversations with people about a lot of these topics, I see they get into that fence post thing and it's like they can't hear and and we shouldn't be having conversations that are, that are grounded in things that aren't related to the health care and and that still fascinates me that we're that it's that that is actually what's ruling this conversation, particularly here in america that it's not actually about the health of the woman no, exactly it's everything else around it and nothing about that person and their health care and their body and their rights.

Dr. Roopan Gill : 22:33

But this is the thing like I feel. I don't want it to sound so pessimistic, but I do believe that women have been just set up to to fail Like.

Dr. Roopan Gill : 22:42

I feel the system is created in a way that is not on the side of women, like, if you think about it right, like it's not even when I think about it, cause abortion is one piece, but like I've also worked in Yemen and Nigeria where I've taken care of people who are, like in this day and age, still child dying and childbirth, not necessarily related to unsafe abortions, but just even other things that we should. We have the technology for here in North America, but people are not dying. So there's like this, yeah, there's this like dynamic. I feel like that's put in place that makes it very difficult for women in general.

Shaman Isis: 23:20

And the system, starting with salary. I mean like that. I never thought into the 2000 that we would be talking about this in 2024. But the fact that that people don't seem to and men don't support this conversation, they won't even have this conversation, which I think is incredibly telling, guys.

Dr. Roopan Gill : 23:34

It's time to wake the fuck up.

Shaman Isis: 23:36

If women are making 20% less. Basically it's 18%, but in some places it's higher, and this isn't even outside of America. It gets even worse. How do people not understand that that's setting women up for failure, when most households in America A don't have savings, but the households that do have savings put less than 10% of it away? So how are women supposed like? This is such an interesting conversation. I think we're still incredibly divorced from how unequal it is. If we just bring it down to that, we're not even talking about healthcare the fact that it takes women four times as long to get diagnosed for the same things as men.

Dr. Roopan Gill : 24:09

Exactly exactly, and that we don't have even just the studies that are usually done on men and not as much on women. That's the big challenge we have. Even investment towards women's health related innovation is less than 2% of funding. That's going towards that. Like there's so many layers of the system, so it's we could talk about. Like it can be very depressing to think about it, right, but it's good to have the awareness because that's what we're fighting against, so that we can know that. But then continue to persevere because there's still success. Success is happening. We're still seeing movement right, like just recently with the Arizona one. I think it's being the. The attempt is. Attempt is to make it that so that it doesn't happen. I saw, you know, somebody on my team just posted something about that that we may not go through.

Shaman Isis: 25:01

Wow, yeah, god, you just said something that struck me really powerfully. Oh yeah, in terms of the, and I think that's the reason why the fear-driven tactics are utilized in media and everywhere else is to prevent actual conversation from happening, because getting angry or upset about truth is the go-to to keep us living in fear, which keeps us in this cycle of never evolving. Yes, and so being able to acknowledge these things but not allow it to take from us energetically and shift where we're at in this conversation, it's those kinds of conversations that show we're changing. Yes, you know when I'm whispering this in the back room. Anyway, such a fascinating topic, tell us about the app.

Dr. Roopan Gill : 25:51

Ah, yes, this is so interesting, yes, tell us about the app.

Dr. Roopan Gill : 25:53

Ah, yes, so this is so interesting. Yes, so Haya Contigo, so Haya with you. So it's in Spanish. It's Spanish. First. It's an abortion doula, essentially virtual, that provides end-to-end accompaniment and support for people to self-manage their own abortion with pills. We have a contraception decision-making aspect to the tool as well.

Dr. Roopan Gill : 26:13

The app. We co-created and launched it in Venezuela, but then now in the US, it's available for all 50 states. What's, I think, unique at the heart and soul of our app? Because it is truly like your best friend in your pocket that is there with you, guiding you through the process, empowering you and providing you not only psycho-emotional support, but navigational support through a virtual chat that we have embedded within the app, or you can access it through WhatsApp. And it's with real-time support, with real people who are speaking your language, either if it's English or Spanish, and they're for you through the entire journey.

Dr. Roopan Gill : 26:48

And we have these counselors available 12 hours a day, seven days a week. We're hoping that we can increase that to 24 hours a day, but it really is our secret sauce because, honestly, like when I people ask me about it, they ask me how you guys are different. I really believe, like the, the, the, the fact that we have that, that chat, and the model of care, and how our our doulas, like the virtual doulas, are talking to our users, along with the app, with providing the information in a very personalized, empowering way, and then how we embed it within the community and working very closely with local communities and local folks. So, yeah, and so that's what we do. We provide people with the access, in the most restrictive places, to self-manage their abortions through our virtual abortion doula.

Shaman Isis: 27:36

Wow, I think that's so incredible. I would have loved to have had that. You know I shared in the when Vitala presented that I had a. You've heard these stories before. I had a miscarriage when I was like six months pregnant, or maybe a little bit further along, and my foster mother at the time leaned over my bed at the hospital to tell me that it was Satan's way of punishing me for having had premarital sex and it was this thing. And then I was mid like it was. It was a very ugly moment but she wasn't able to have children, which I think had drove a lot of what she said the nurses in that room.

Dr. Roopan Gill : 28:23

It was the first time in my that I had seen people kind of really stand up for me they stood back for a second and they were like, how could you say that?

Shaman Isis: 28:27

oh, they actually kicked out of the room and I was like and so I there's a there's a soft place in my heart for people in the medical community who support women's health and understand how important those moments are, that they be beautiful and that the experience be empowering. You know, I think, a lot of people. I just did a feature for those of you who know about Soul Tech Magazine. The second issue just came out, the goddess issue of Soul Tech Magazine and I did an interview with Dr Gill and I uh, and I love that photo, by the way, it's amazing and I know that I, um, it might if you read it already.

Shaman Isis: 29:07

You know Celtic magazine is a conscious living magazine. It has a lot about spirituality in it and I know I've had some people go you're, you're, you're touching on something that's. That's about, like that topic of abortion in a spiritual magazine and I was like you're confusing religion with spirituality. Spirituality is about self-actualization and getting into mind, body and soul harmony and becoming the best version of yourself. It has nothing to do with with a woman's right to choose how she handles her family planning.

Dr. Roopan Gill : 29:34

You know, that's about religion.

Shaman Isis: 29:36

What do you, what do you think about that? Did it occur to you when I asked you if you would interview for that?

Dr. Roopan Gill : 29:49

Were you, like this is kind of interesting. Well, um, yes and no, because I am so like, I am so spiritual, like spiritually minded and I'm so into these things as well, like around the wellness practices that I do, um, and especially like kundalini, I mean that is a very deep practice. So I actually loved it when, when we heard about the work you're doing and that you wanted to do that, have that conversation, because I myself have been thinking and reflecting and I've had coaching sessions around this too, and how to be a bridge of these worlds, and I think we need more people like us, like you, like me, that are working in sort of this space where people think it's very esoteric and the spiritual and more ancestral, but also bringing in the evidence-based and the science and the rationale, because I think we need them both, but to connect them we need bridges, and the bridges are like people like us. So I feel, for me, it was amazing to be able to say yes, because that is what also guides me so deeply, like whenever I reflect on, like what is it that keeps me so motivated or like inspired to continue doing this work is because it is a reflection and a mirror of my spirituality.

Dr. Roopan Gill : 30:54

I feel, though the coming together with my team, the empowering is because it's also the team I'm empowering, it's the, it's the women, the self-actualization to really like it is an act, it's a spiritual practice, like that's. That's what I was saying to my team. Often, too, I say like running an organization feels like a always an act, a spiritual practice, but I feel like even the intimacy and the care that we're providing for people in some of these most intimate moments is also like an act of spirituality. You know, it's so raw and human and I feel very like, yeah, it's all connected, it's all interconnected.

Shaman Isis: 31:36

It really is of the way you put that together so beautifully, is that the younger generations and the women of the future who will be running this world need women who are saying straighten your crown up, girl. This is your existence, your experience and you are in complete command of it. And like really empowering them and allowing them to see what spiritual practices are really about and removing them. You know, you can be. I don't mind people being religious, I don't have a problem with it, I just I for me, those are separate. That's a separate thing. Yeah, and being able to give women space because we will be running the world, yes, yes, we will.

Shaman Isis: 32:19

You know, I think we kind of already are. We're just accepting that. Anyway, if people wanted to learn more about your company and find out more about IAC you pronounce IAC so much better than me. You must speak Spanish.

Dr. Roopan Gill : 32:32

I do yes. Yeah, I started learning like when I was starting the organization, but my fiance is from Spain, so that also helps.

Shaman Isis: 32:44

So people wanted to, you guys Totally so.

Dr. Roopan Gill : 32:47

Aya Contigo. If you're in the US, like I, we really want as many people to like know about it. Tell your friends. Like you know, you can download Aya Contigo app on the Apple Store, google Play Store. It's a web app, so you can also access it through like a web link um as well. So if you go to our website, holaholaayacontigocom, you'll be able to access our website. And then going to our website, vitala Global and find us on LinkedIn, find us on Instagram.

Dr. Roopan Gill : 33:19

Um, yeah, I mean, I want everybody to know about it and share about it. And also another thing I'll add to this is like people should also know that they can get abortion pills in all 50 states. So we're partnered with a lot of amazing organizations, so I want to shout that out too, because I think there's so much misinformation. But you can still get through online pharmacies all 50 states. You can get abortion pills. Plan C pills is amazing. For information, I need an A even M&A hotline. Some of these key resources can be really supportive Aid, access and for folks to just even know that they can do advanced provision of like buy pills and keep them in their cupboard, because you never know and you can do that.

Shaman Isis: 34:02

Yeah, I love that. So that was well said. Um, before we go, I'll tell you something that I saw that was on I think it was on uh x or uh or twitter, and it was this far, you know, and I, I'm I'm in middle of the road, I'm a middle person, I'm I'm neither democrat nor republican, but I it was one of the people who's really pushed the abortion restrictions in the country and she was like are these politicians in those posts without thinking about it? She's like you know that the government is out of control when they start telling you how, what oven to choose. Oh my god, somebody responded, and they were like and aren't you the one telling women what to do with their?

Dr. Roopan Gill : 34:41

bodies. That's so funny.

Shaman Isis: 34:45

I love that oh my God, it was so, it was just so perfect and it was like you know get, get out of women's healthcare decisions, it's enough.

Dr. Roopan Gill : 34:55

Totally I agree.

Shaman Isis: 34:56

It's been such a pleasure to get a chance to speak to you. Hopefully, I'll get a chance to meet you if you come to New York or I'm in Canada.

Dr. Roopan Gill : 35:03

Yes, definitely. Thank you so much for the opportunity. Really enjoyed this conversation.

Shaman Isis: 35:08

Thank you, you guys. If you're not already subscribed to Citizen Journalist, what are you thinking? I mean, we were just featured in People and Entertainment Weekly and a bunch of other places, so you know you get on it and subscribe to support the conversation. That takes, you know, important topics from soundbites to solutions. And if you haven't checked out my book, I'd grab a copy of it. It's too far away from me. If you haven't grabbed a copy of Memory Mansion, which shares my journey from Tennessee orphanage to the red carpets of New York City fashion, to depression and being very overweight, to happiness, then please go check out memory mansion, because you guys helped make it a number one. So please do that. And if you haven't already reviewed it, please do that as well. Anyway, you guys can follow me on social media. I'm at shaman ISIS or at shaman ISIS official, just about everywhere, and you can find out more about the show and all the work that I do at shamanicistcom. Anyway, you guys have a beautiful week and thank you again, my dear.

Dr. Roopan Gill : 36:05

Thank you, thank you so much, bye, bye, you guys, bye.